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How Can a Nation Survive In A Multicultural World? – With Harsh Tiwari

How Can a Nation Survive In A Multicultural World? - With Harsh Tiwari



no clothes thank you for joining us once again I'm with my friend gosh you are – what honey – body yeah yeah we practiced on the first name yeah we did practice he is the chief editor of the pangaean which is an online magazine which celebrates and discusses multiple viewpoints from multiple and multiple perspectives and multiple ideologies feel free to look into that as well as potentially become a contributor yourself anyway hope you're doing very well one thing I would really like to talk with you today about is how do civilizations maintain their cultural independence their nationalism in a multiculturalist world now first of all comes the question do you believe this is still a multicultural world we live in I think I it does mmm see that's a decline mmm this multicultural world would you say it's becoming less of a multicultural world what that say is this you know first let me see you know let me clarify what I mean by multicultural I'm multicultural I don't mean that you know I don't mean multiculturalism but the idea that all cultures are equal or anything of that sort that's a very different debate what I mean is that you know I think multiple cultures are living far closer to each other than they have a date I mean a hundred years ago you wouldn't have if you lived in Middle America you wouldn't know about what goes on in India you care about what goes on in India but now if you live in Middle America with an internet connection you can have intimate knowledge and multiple stupid views that you could put forward and and and and and I mean this is a difficult question because you get again when the leftist he speaks of a borderless world I mean you have this argument with with one of these leftists or whatever you call them who was this passing a borderless world and they were thinking you know that you know we should live in a live in a world where you know cultures can seamlessly interact with each other and where you know the boundaries that define a nation have no meaning and I'm like if you were trying to tell me that and this was a this was a white gentleman so I had to do this because it was not a fun I said if boundaries have no meaning if national borders have no meaning the new occupying us had no meaning and that ended the debate there and sort of that that functions the launchpad for me just you know you want to the more complicated discussion off well of course we need borders that seems to be we need we need borders we need boundaries just as we need boundaries on on our behavior we need boundaries in our in our home this is my room that is your room we need we need we need borders but how how do we again prevent at the same point of time how do we get that balance right between when what is what is the difference between self-preservation and plain fact racism well I mean it's I think it's pretty simple it depends on whether you are interview you were exerting your energy within yourself in your own culture or whether you're exerting it on other people and their culture that's the thing I mean there I mean there are thousands of Ko cultures within the United States if not you know hundreds of thousands and they are constantly evolving and chain I mean you in the united the united states is pretty much the only place where you with an italian accent can be eating a taco inside of a chinese restaurant you know that's it's one of the few place in the world where you can do something like that and you know have fun when you're doing you know and well you know well having fun you know the I think the United States has done a better job than any other country in terms of peacefully adapting to each other's culture the idea is that you don't have all these millions of different separate cultures but rather you just have one big giant melting pot that you throw it a little bit of Indian spice a little bit of French on this and you know you just it just is this big giant much pot oh yeah he you know his version of cooking is get everything in the fridge dump it into a pot and serve it lush that's good what America is it's mush mmm you know do you think and I think that predominantly that model works at least for America do you not foresee up working in other countries well certainly not that mine it was mine them in mr. Shashi through was an undersecretary general to to the unit in the United Nations you know accomplished author 18 books again an actual original think slash public intellectual who you know has been a bigger Parliament in India as well and again speaks with a ridiculously British accent as well yeah so he wrote about how so when you have whatever you have a traditional Indian meal a traditional Indian meal sort of would have like this main dish either the rice of the bread sort of in the center and then there'll be a huge load of bulls around it and each bowl contains a different kind of curry different kind of preparation different kind of dish which sort of and you dip your rice into all of that and work your way through it and you meet it so he said India is if America is a melting pot India is that it's you know it's it's one place on which different bowls are kept and each Bowl is old but each has its different flavor but they're all connected by the fact that they're on one plate and they're all connected by the sight that you're eating them with one pile of rice oh you know or the you know the same bit of bread so so I would argue that it it's it's I mean if you look at the relationship between India and Pakistan you know that this sort of Hindu Muslim relation and even Hindu Muslim Christian relations in India are not very good unlike the sort of relationship they have in America which certainly isn't perfect but I would argue better I would argue that his father opposite I mean again you read enough bright but you'd be convinced every place is a hellhole apart from America but sorry I was needed so yeah no I yeah I'd argue again I remember coming back home after after having go to the pub with a friend and my uber driver was Muslim and and we had this extremely poignant conversation on on on median society and everything and maybe that's personal experience but as far as I'm concerned I think as far as religious coexistence is concerned there's no one that can beat us for the simple reason that only in India will you find that everyone celebrates every festival mm-hmm we set up a Christmas tree in our home we are a very Orthodox Hindu Brahmin family I'm sure I hope you know India's caste system yeah yeah we're pathetic way up there yeah okay but we set up the Christmas tree we everybody gets up and this is the most beautiful thing we have that last number public holidays because every religious holiday is everyone's holiday so if there's divine the lights for Hindus Muslims get holiday too and if that is the Muslim festival of Eid the Hindus get Allah Day – and everyone goes and sees so everyone get there so I guess you get every day off because there's some I'm sure there is some culture with at least within India that has the day off yeah yeah pretty much you know it's a very happy hippo I mean because yeah I mean I have grown up in an environment where I had friends from all kinds of different communities in India speaking all kinds of different languages from different religions and again I remember studying in a big in an extremely Catholic school we didn't have any white people in it I mean there's so many non-white Catholics out there my point is you know sabha India yeah you know Hindu Hindu boy starting in Catholic school you know yeah that is there there's a European stereotype for to be sure yeah an absurd number of Christmas carols because of that sure the point the point I'm trying to get at is that the the relationship between I mean yes there are I mean it's nice that you share holidays together but I mean dude well from what it seems is that there is a increase in violence of Hindus down house against now now it's a very recent development it's because I mean only a move okay let me not comment much on Hindu nationalism here we never know what can happen it is slowly soft being with you know having a rest freedom in the greatest way how reason would you say it is I'd say first Murray's election via MIDI okay so what like when was that mm what 15 okay okay people being lynched because they eat beef why do you care yeah yeah now of course for a joke I will share on Facebook some article which says you know eating cows is supposed to be a comfort to the environment I'd be like you know the world needs to be Hindu although I don't think Hinduism as a religion can or should proselytize yeah I think I believe Hinduism has to be anti proselytizing you either born a Hindu what you want what what I'm getting to in the in the broader sense of this conversation is how do you maintain independence how do we maintain as individual cultures I mean in a quote/unquote multicultural society first of all what you never really did define multicultural in your own sense there's that yeah you talk about the borderless kind of governing list is multicultural society all cultures are equal and you dismiss that wondering what we're replacing it with exactly and I repeat what I think is what I think is said in the Hindu Upanishads which I mean the Sanskrit phase is but what's with her e-ever Cordoba which means all are children of one bus at ha the earth so the world is sort of one family now as hippy as that sound sounds what that means is the world is one family so you sort of don't have much of a choice you have to live with each other because your family you can't just wish a community way we know one that was tried failed thank God it failed and at the same point of time in the world is one well you guys are a family you sort of have to respect each other's independence and eat each other's way of doing things and at the same time have to help each other out as well so this book being participate without seeking to impose so that's why I mean you know what I think America does right is again get a melting pot together what I think it's what I think America does wrong is try and define in any real sense what is American what is an American I see I see well I mean to be fair Americans are pretty bad at doing that that very much is an internal debate but at the same time there are some very clearly unamerican things for example burning the American flag that's I you know that's that's pretty on America you have the understanding and recognize you have the right to do so fine that's American but the thing is America is more than a patch of dirt or people it really is more of a constant a political concept of individual freedom limited government and things of that nature and you know I know if you know this but it weren't Luther King jr. the you know our greatest civil rights leader he he did not encourage burning the flag or stomping on her pooping on door anything like that remember he argued that he was being more akin to the dream the American idea than the white race though you know the Ku Klux then and all these other racists you know in that that's what he was trying to argue what these new this new era of people of color anti you know the left anti fathers people they they are they want to see America the they hate the founding fathers they hate the origin of the Constitution they hate the Constitution itself they hate that concept of America and they wants to replace it with it more globalist different whatever yeah postmodern Marxist left-leaning communist utopia blah blah blah blah blah ya know the only internet over there is this which is that I've always found this bizarre this Protestant or other Abrahamic need to reach a promised land very very DT if you will because so much Western mindset versus the yeah trying to reach a promised land you you and I think Marxism is is is an extreme example of trying to reach a promised land because it's when again you're supposed to have one God one dictator of the proletariat and you would reach this classless stateless utopia just the way in which for a conservative you will reach this you know this utopia of limited government and and and and and and I don't know so with the Hindu way of looking at things you try to take things more as a match it's more of a every every political concept of that sort it's a bit of an illusion again maybe sounds to some extent nihilistic but I've always believed it it is very because everything is permissible that we are to think very very carefully about what ought to be permissible because none of us see all ends and if we take everything that is permissible to mean everything ought to be permissible then then that's you know then that civilization suicide but but you know all that abstract philosophy aside would I think for our case would be be more important this is just a recognition that this idea of America or this idea of India or this idea this idea of anything is a bit we need to be helped we need to have a healthy person is about that idea let's not get ourselves the American Constitution is a great document to the people who were at the Philadelphia Convention where were enlightened people but they were still restrained by the times they were in and they were still the bunch of slaves burners declaring that all people are born free and equal I'm not saying that to their discredit I'm just identifying and being realistic about you know what is this thing built on what what are these feelings built on it quite a few years and when you say Martin Luther King for him – for him to sort of recalibrate American society – will hide it higher I to a more ideal notion of that idea mm-hmm so so itself tries to chase ideals I think I think we have refocus on here and now and sort of solve problems as we go along instead of seeking an idea of America which we must get to or place me where we must go or an idea of a multicultural world we must go we we must recognize more of where we shouldn't go well madhu that then it's sort of an endless quest quest of not doing things you know don't do this don't do that but I mean you – it's and I'm not dismissing your idea to a certain degree all right you're absolutely right at the same time there's yes I mean there there is that political aspect of how do we get funding for that bridge over the creek or how do we fix these potholes or how are we gonna have a better education system within the county there are these local issues that are political that are here and now that we know we have to fix but then there is this sort of high up D up where are we going what are we doing with ourselves and I don't I I won't comment whether or not that's common in the Indian culture but for the Asian culture yeah we're no probing anywhere we're not going anywhere we're always reborn here yeah you see see see there live combats lives everything is meaningless I mean you see that that's the thing that is futile the the Indian yeah that that's the biggest difference between eastern Indian Asian philosophy both political and philosophical and also Western is that we do believe that we're come on we have one life to live where individuals and we have to do the absolute best we can and this sort of utopian well there's a distinction to be made the the more left-leaning side tends to have this utopian vision conservatives I would say don't really have a utopian vision so much as they have more of a I want to be able to be free to pursue as best as I can I want to be able to run as fast as I can as hard as I can for this one race because our mindset is this is not a rehearsal rather this is the audition and the I know what our act is is our I mean depending on whether or not you believe in a spirituality is our legacy in our overall you know our dealings in the afterlife that would be the main actual act but the actual show does not matter if you mess up the rehearsal and so the Western mindset is we need to do as best as we can in this rehearsal because this is all we got we probably won't get to utopia but we're gonna try as hard as we can and do as best as we can at that that's that's the most basic mindset of the Western political mind that I I do my best to boil it down for my dear Asian friends so again I've grown up in an environment where I was you know well initially forced to read the Bible until I until I found it extremely stimulating or the Quran for that matter and read City of God and quite quite a lot of and even a little bit of Moblin going to try my stack heart again speaking to Detroit has its advantages doesn't it nice that legend yeah we have – yeah we have to shout out to Troy in this yeah yes yes the dear lovely mr. Wardin president Holden yeah Berkley yeah yeah the brahman of Berkeley no no I've granted him a sacred thread for his learning and for his weirdly Eastern bent of mind despite I mean yeah he's become more of a Christian these days which is annoying but that's fine no for me or for for the Eastern world or at least for the hidden it's not it is outgrowing the need to do your best right it's it's reaching a level of spirituality where you don't even need to ask yourself there's life of meaning you're living it because you're supposed to yeah see that's the big that I mean I each turn eastern folks they they can hop onto the western train they can but Western folks have a great difficulty hopping on the eastern thought and I've tried my best in perhaps I'd have to live in India for a few years – like really understand it oh my god I make fun of old white people who on their calculus to India or any part of Asia right now that this is my Middle Eastern voice talking okay in any case we are running out of time I'll let you I'll let you finish I'll let you finish with sort of a like few sentences on sort of what is the importance of maintaining our culture why should any particular supply station strive to maintain their culture because without it we have no sense of identity human beings have a pathological need for an identity we're not just animals with these conscious human beings with these prefrontal cortexes with imaginations and and if we don't maintain our cultures we don't maintain our cultural identities well again it brings back it goes back to that question of if everything is permissible and so if everything if everything ought to be but permissible then it's civilizational societies in that way in which if we don't maintain our cultures if we don't maintain our identities then we have you know to reach a point where it really does feel like we're sisters and I don't think human life is Sisyphus rolling up the stone up the hill only to watch it fall down again no it's it's not futile if they're fun exactly you have the audience is having fun we certainly are very glad that you were able to join us I've been speaking with Irish mr. harsh is the chief editor of the pangaean welcome you and invite you to read it his countless articles on a variety of subjects thank you so much for speaking this has been absolutely delightful oh absolutely as well for me thank you so much for having me thank you Oh our most

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