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Stop Calling Traditional Martial Arts Fake • Martial Arts Explored

Stop Calling Traditional Martial Arts Fake • Martial Arts Explored


What Are Fantasy Based Martial Arts
(Let’s Separate Traditional Martial Arts From Fantasy Based Martial Arts) As in many areas of life, there is a big divide
in the martial arts world. Often this division is made between Traditional
Martial Arts and Modern Martial Arts or Combat Sports. I’ve recently made a whole video about how
I personally define Traditional Martial Arts and what problems I witness in the way it
is structured, yet I can not disagree that the term Traditional Martial Arts is still
confusing when debating the world of martial arts. For this reason in this Martial Arts Explored
episode, I decided to make a video getting down to the roots of what creates this division
and why we should stop calling Traditional Martial Arts fake by clarifying the difference
between “Traditional Martial Arts” and “Fantasy Based Martial Arts” – to better
address and articulate the problem in the search for a solution. First of all I wanted to share that the first
time I personally heard the definition Fantasy Based Martial Arts was when I met Matt Thornton,
a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt who has founded a global organization known as Straight Blast
Gym or – SBG. Decades ago Coach Matt Thornton used to be
a practitioner and instructor in Jeet Kun Do, a martial art initially created by Bruce
Lee with the vision to create and efficient martial art that included and combined techniques
from various martial arts. Unfortunately, it seems that over the years,
especially after the passing of Bruce Lee, the community of Jeet Kun Do started to focus
less on functionality and more on simply incorporating various martial arts techniques, without testing
it in live sparring to see whether it is functional. Coach Matt was able to perceive this flaw
and he coined a few terms which explained the existing issue very well. First of all he introduced the concept of
Aliveness in martial arts, referring to the fact, that if the techniques are practiced
in prearranged patterns with a cooperating partner who does not offer “alive” resistance,
trying to counter the technique by various means – then the martial art is following
quote on quote “dead patterns”, which do not develop absolutely necessary abilities
when dealing with an attacker who is really aiming to harm or defeat you. With no live resistance, AKA Aliveness – there
is no way to really distinguish techniques which are functional, while martial arts who
pressure test their techniques constantly, such as in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when grappling
or Muay Thai when sparring – end up mastering and polishing techniques and approaches which
are highly effective – thus making them as Matt Thornton would call them: “Functional
Martial Arts”. Meanwhile the martial arts which follow the
so called “dead patterns” tend to believe that their techniques work just because it
“looks” effective or because their instructors told their students that it works, which eventually
leads this belief to become a fantasy, thus creating the final term coined by coach Thornton,
which is – “Fantasy Based Martial Arts”. When looking into online debates on Martial
Arts forums, Traditional Martial Arts often get criticized and looked down upon as unrealistic
or sometimes are simply called fake, and I have to admit that I have been guilty of making
this claim as well. While I have defined in a number of my videos
that my definition of “Traditional Martial Arts” is that of martial arts which rely
heavily on tradition, still this term does not necessarily fully address the issues which
people are actually trying to point out when criticizing Traditional Martial Arts. That issue is when certain martial arts claim
to be effective in actual fighting, while many times the reality is quite far from it. It is common that the martial arts which make
this unrealistic claim without actually pressure testing – fall into the category of Traditional
Martial Arts, thus many martial artists or combat sports practitioners tend to call Traditional
Martial Arts fake – yet to be fair – not all Traditional Martial Arts lack pressure testing
as in for example Judo, while also some modern martial arts systems such as the Russian Systema
or some so called “reality based self defense systems” suffer from the same condition. This is why I would like to encourage all
viewers watching this video in these debates to consider the term “Fantasy Based Martial
Arts” or “FBMA” to better define and point out the problem instead. In order to fully employ it to use, I would
like to further explore it in detail on what it exactly is. As most of you know my main martial arts experience
for many years consisted of Aikido, which is by many categorized as both a traditional
martial art and also a “fake martial arts”, and I personally believe it is done for good
reasons. While Aikido online is heavily criticized
for being ineffective, as I explained in one of my videos called: “Why Aikido is Disliked
by BJJ and MMA Practitioners”, the criticism is actually not because Aikido is a traditional
martial art and not even primarily because it is not effective as a means of fighting
or self defense, but mainly because most Aikido people believe and fondly claim that it is
effective. And I personally know how that works very
well. For many years I also believed that it does
work, until I eventually tried to test it under actual, live pressure of sparring and
grappling, where a decade of my Aikido training did not work at all. In this case it would be easy, and I believe,
correct to say that for years I was living in a fantasy, believing that my Aikido was
functional, yet what made it mostly a fantasy, was the fact that I was believing that I would
be able to manage myself in a fight or a self defense situation, believing in it only based
on hearsay and stories, without any actual evidence or pressure testing. I find this phenomenon to be best explained
by what is known as the “Dunning and Kruger Effect”. This phenomenon was defined by social psychologists
David Dunning and Justin Kruger initially by a study called “Unskilled and Unaware of
It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments”,
which explored the criminal case of McArthur Wheeler, who robbed banks while his face was
covered with lemon juice, which he believed would make it invisible to the surveillance
cameras. This belief was based on his misunderstanding
of the chemical properties of lemon juice as an invisible ink. To further understand how this phenomenon
works, Dunning and Kruger later released another study called “Why People Fail to Recognize
Their Own Incompetence”, which pointed out that this phenomenon derives from the person’s
ignorance of a given activity’s standards of performance. To put it more simply, if I have no education
in singing and no understanding in what criteria of singing exists, I may as well come to conclusion
that my singing is good, just because it appears good to me, or if for example my best friend
who is also uneducated in singing would also say it is good and I would come to a conclusion
that it is enough information to define my singing as great. As crazy as this sounds, it happens all the
time and there are many recorded cases such as where terrible singers come to qualifications
of singing shows as “American Idol” and misperform horribly, in the end being surprised
that the judges did not like their singing, since they personally believe their singing
is amazing. At first, it seems that these bad singers
are simply crazy, but as Dunning and Kruger explain, it is actually all based on the lack
of that individual to understand the activity’s standards of performance, or to realize where
he or she actually stands in the ability to really perform. Unfortunately, this is exactly what happens
in martial arts too. If we take my personal story as an example,
before stepping into the ring with an MMA fighter to spar, I have never really sparred
with an experienced fighter. At best I had a few sparring matches with
my friends, who knew little of fighting themselves and while I barely made my Aikido work against
them, compiled with all the stories my instructors told me of how Aikido would naturally come
into use when I would be really attacked or that it is designed to defend against an untrained
attacker, I believed that I could handle myself at least to some degree. If you know my story, you also know that after
rolling with a BJJ blue belt and eventually sparring with an MMA fighter, I realized that
there is almost nothing that I could apply from my 13 years of training Aikido, when
dealing with actual fighting pressure. In other words I knew nothing about the criteria
which makes a person capable of dealing with an actual, unwilling opponent, or to say it
even more simply – I knew nothing about real fighting or grappling, and having no understanding
of what real fighting and grappling is – it was easy for me to believe that I am good
enough at it, since I had nothing in my mind to compare or assess it with. And trust me, this was not a unique case. This same story happens all over the world,
year after year in fantasy based martial arts. To avoid repeating this story, I sincerely
hope that anyone listening to this video will look at themselves and will ask – how do I
really know what fighting is? Why do I think I am capable of fighting or
defending myself? What is the evidence of my ability in this
particular field? And is it not really limited in only performing
choreographed movements together with a cooperative partner or fighting only under a very limited
set of rules, against a minimum amount of resistance or factors such as for example
punches only to the core area. As I’ve spoken in other episodes – there
is nothing wrong in practicing a martial art which is not effective as long as there is
complete honesty and understanding of it’s limitations. The problem arises when there is a belief,
or in other words a fantasy of unrealistic assessment of practitioner’s abilities in
a desired field, such as fighting or self defense. And if you look closely enough you will see
that this fantasy is not equal in all traditional martial arts, which makes it unfair to flag
them all under the same category. Judo makes a perfect example, as it is usually
considered a traditional martial art, yet it is difficult to deny its effectiveness
in its own field and the level of pressure testing under its given rules. Different Karate and Taekwondo styles also
offer different levels of sparring and pressure. And while it would probably be fair to say
that more traditional martial arts tend to be fantasy based than combat sports, at the
same time, once more it would be unfair to put them all in the same box, while also creating
further confusion and difficulties in expressing and discussing exactly what the critique is
being directed at, while broadly generalizing and calling Traditional Martial Arts fake. With sincere intent and hope to aid people
who have trouble in defining whether their martial art is really delivering what it promises
and with the intent to aid every person who is trying to explain to someone of what actually
the problem with some martial arts is, once more I am suggesting to exchange the term
Traditional Martial Arts to a more specific term – Fantasy Based Martial Arts, or FBMA
when discussing about this specific subject. And with the hopes to do so successfully,
I am offering a list of items that define or show a strong tendency in a martial art
to be an FBMA: The lack of sparring or pressure testing
Sparring or pressure testing under very specific, limites set of rules, with very low levels
of resistance or pressure Heavy reliance on a cooperative partner
Strong investment in constant repetition of choreographed movements
The use of the term self defense without the ability to define what are the essential aspects
of self defense such as detection, avoidance and deterrence. Instead heavy reliance on “what ifs scenarios”
and endless, not pressure tested response techniques
The claim that the martial art would beat a striker or grappler, without ever willing
to actually prove it Reliance on various excuses and justifications
why this martial art is not pressure tested Lack of evidence of the effectiveness of the
martial art on any level, including recorded footage of its success in fighting or self
defense scenarios The claim that this martial art is designed
to work against untrained attackers, without ever pressure testing it against untrained
opponents, even with safety measures such as full contact armor
Mystification of certain aspects of the martial art, using such terms as Ki, Chi or prana
Refusal to test the martial art against martial artists of other schools or styles
Claims that there are secret or special techniques, known only to the school In the end, if you look at the Fantasy Based
Martial Arts list, while some aspects of them do apply in some Traditional Martial Arts,
yet again it shows that a Traditional Martial Art is not necessarily an FBMA. Yet again, I want to admit that I was guilty
of making that claim or being vague enough when using the term Traditional Martial Arts
myself, yet I hope this episode of Martial Arts Explored will bring clarity not only
in my own further explorations, but also in various discussions and the explorations of
each individual martial artist. Let me know in the comments if you feel I’ve
missed valuable points to the definition of Fantasy Based Martial Arts. Also, do you personally think the FBMA term
may be beneficial in discussions relating to this subject? If you liked this Martial Arts Explored episode
make sure to check other episodes by clicking here. And subscribe to the Martial Arts Journey
channel to know when the next episode is out. Until then, I wish you to question the hell
out of yourself.

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100 thoughts on “Stop Calling Traditional Martial Arts Fake • Martial Arts Explored

  1. With this new Martial Arts Explored episode I invite everyone who would like to translate its subtitles so that more people could benefit from this subject. If you have the time, ability and interest here is the link to the official YouTube translating panel: http://www.youtube.com/timedtext_video?v=-xxYE60N–o&ref=share
    Thank you in advance to everyone joining this initiative!

  2. traditional or modern martial art are no different it's just how well you understand it and experince as well as how you train. Mental>Physical>skill. Best way to learn fighting is by fighting.

  3. Effective is the term to be used. Trying to categorize will only lead to a plethora of categories. A martial art falls on a scale from entirely ineffective to completely effective. Along the way you get “some techniques only are effective” and “its effective only in certain situations” or under certain rules etc. A martial art is judged solely on effectiveness.

    Of course now we must define what is effective? Effective on the street? In a boxing ring? In a MMA fight? Rolling in BJJ?

    So the measuring stick is the definition of effective. Define your measure and then measure its effectiveness. This is easy to understand and arguing with it becomes logical.

    For Example. In a regulation boxing match BJJ is completely ineffective. Another example. In a grappling situation BJJ is a very very effective martial art. Both statements of effectiveness are true.

    Focus on effective; define and measure. Labels become to complex, involved and emotionally charged (illogical).

  4. Big respect to you from a former Aikido practitioner, myself. Bummed I missed you when you were in Portland! I enjoy your videos. Cheers!

  5. We have a disclosure of Wing Chun here which debunks the mainstream Wing Chun and it also explains why are there so many mainstream Wing Chun practitioners failing on YouTube. Check it out https://youtu.be/N8ViFgGPA2k

  6. Is Kenpo a fantasy martial art? if it is not, why is it that most don't really pressure test the moves. There is a big gap in the Kenpo community where they practice the ideal phase and not the what if phase.

  7. "this fantasy" is also different for all practitioners. Someone with a boxing background, who starts practicing Aikido, will surely not become delusional all of a sudden. Maybe they'll even pick up a few throws and locks to round out their self defense game.

    I have the feeling the fantasy starts creeping into a tradition or system when it is no longer used — by most practitioners — for actual defense and/or to challenge outsiders. Compare the origin of Judo with the restricted rule sets used in competition today, for example. If Kano and his students hadn't challenged the strongest Jiu Jitsu fighters of the time, people might be laughing at Jitsu the way they do at Aikido nowadays.

    Check out Chadi A's excellent video about this history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3lsC88iRc

  8. Problem: I agree with your basic point, but I'm not sure the terminology is optimal in terms of debate and discussion. The use of the word "fantasy" implies a positive claim that a martial art is verifiably ineffective or reliant on false ideas, putting the burden of proof on you rather than the FBMA folks. It goes beyond suggesting that THEY don't know that it works, instead suggesting that YOU know that it doesn't. Prove chi doesn't exist. Prove the secret techniques aren't real. Prove they can't be used to beat a boxer. Prove it never happened.

    Instead, I'd suggest going with something like "theoretical martial arts". It all works in theory (drills, scenarios, scripts, etc.), but it's yet to be verified. You're not saying that it's definitely bullshit, because that would force YOU to prove something, but simply that you've yet to see any evidence that it works. That puts the onus on THEM to back up their claims. The opposite of theoretical martial arts would be something like practical martial arts. It works in practice and we know this because it's been put to practice.

    Finally, another benefit of calling it "theoretical" instead of "fantasy-based" is that it's relatively easy to present as a value-neutral descriptor instead of an insult, meaning that it stands a greater chance of catching on among practitioners of theoretical martial arts. In science and mathematics, the theoretical side is often given greater prestige than the applied side. It's purer, nobler, more philosophical. It's an easier sell than "fantasy-based", with its connotations of delusion and LARPing. The only downside I can think of is that it may be harder to get practical martial artists onboard specifically because it feels like less of an insult, making it less fun. At the end of the day, though, getting your message out there is more important, and practical martial artists already agree with you in most respects.

  9. Okay, now you crossed the fucking line. I don’t care if it’s intentional or not, you just suggested that Kali is FBMA when you showed several clips of it while explaining what FBMA. You want pressure test? DM Me. We’ll discuss our terms.

  10. I never had an Instructor in TKD or Karate mention anything about fighting even though we sparred just for keep skills and gauge each other. In real life situations it always comes back to a person intelligence and no matter skill set or style..

  11. I would like to see a closer video on Russian systema martial art. It is said that it is used by their military, but it is also often claimed that it doesn't work?

  12. I view Aikido as the frosting on the cake for people who are well grounded in martial arts and realize there is more to life than combat. It is not the cake. The first generation of Aikido students were well grounded in other martial arts. It is possible that you should never start with Aikido, it is more a philosophy of life than a "Martial Art". I don't live in a world where I have to fight for my life on a regular basis, but the idea of diverting or rechanneling conflict comes up every day.

  13. Hi Rokas, NamelessandFaceless here. I am subscribed to you, and enjoy your content. My story is a tad odd, and I upload vids to document my journey. Just a note on yours, from my POV: I notice that you get lots of flack from current aikidoka, because they may feel that you went from the "force" to the "sith," when you went from aikido to mma. I have opinions on this myself, but I will save it for a vid I will do in the future. The only important thing here, is whether or not you are happy doing what you are doing. Many blessings, and keep training.

  14. Well I had fights before and after studying martial artist. A street fight is a great pressure test. Hopefully you never need to take this test.😊

  15. When I think of what makes a traditional martial art, I think of the method of training. More specifically, the use of forms as a means of transferring skills. I think the distinction between fantasy and effective martial arts would follow from the application of techniques. A fantasy MA would not practice the form's application with resistance, while an effective MA will. Also, when a particular technique doesn't work, the form is updated with one that does.

  16. And the problem worsens if that FBMA is associated with any religious or race ethnicity. Even if those martial arts has little to no actual combative training, people will buy it just because its connected to their race or religion!.

  17. It's great, that you came to this conclusion because before this video you mutated into just another: "train mma, all tma are bulls**t." Guy.
    Now it seems, that you have your mind and eyes open again.

    I train Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, 4 Years now, trained Chin Woo Kung Fu as a Kid and as a Teenager one year of Krav Maga.
    We now train our stuff in the traditional movesets and convert them, after the basics of timing, distance and angle and some specific Bujinkan based things are set, into "fighting patterns".
    Means we try to apply the technique while the oponents resist.
    Problem with this is: when your oponent knows whats gonna happen he counters it intentional.

    So we do a short "sparring" part in the end, where we are staying in a circle and attack the Person in the middle one by one, with different attaks, keeping the stress up to force the defender to act proper.

    In Bujinkan there is a saying:
    "You don't choose the action which will happen, your oponent chooses, you just apply what you learned."

  18. If I can get you to consider something, that on the other hand, pre-arranged fights in the ring do not realistically simulate defensive tactics PURELY because the psychology behind it is completely different. You're prepared and ready, he is prepared and ready, only very few things will work.

    But when you're on the job, it's different.

    Let me give you a live example: one of our guys was heading to a client. He got out of his car and within seconds 11 kids aged around 16, stepped out from around the corner all armed with chains, pipes and whatever else they could find. Not only was this totally unexpected, if anything happens there's no-one to suddenly stop the fight. That alone causes a HUGE amygdala reaction that can shut someone down regardless of their ring work.

    Another one of our guys two years ago was jumped at knife point out if the blue, but because of HIS prior training in defense tactics, shot and killed the guy as they fell to the ground.

    Yes, I agree that modern TMAs may not be pressure tested, but to me relying on the ring as an accurate tester is only partially reliable. You need to work 30+ hours a week in a field that puts your skill to use to truly test it. I know plenty of bouncers who do Karate, Aikido, MMA, BJJ doesn't matter. Some dont even do Martial arts!

  19. I really dont like your approach. The reason is that you never understood the difference between selfedefence and fighting and the difference between traditional martial arts and ancient martial arts. And that makes a huuuge difference. When you talk about fighting you say "I never was able to deffend myself in a sparring situation"….. Wtf as long as you try something nothing will work. You still have this attitude of waiting for an attack that you can react. And that is the mistake! In ancient martial arts ghey never waited for attacks. They built up the contact by their own. Look at your judo example! Does this guy waiting for a punch to do a fancy technique? No! ///// All this kung fu forms show that you really have to be agressive. But every teacher tells you bullshit about being the vegan, hippie, defensive, peacefull guy…. It is the attitude what makes the difference. Fighting has nothing to do with being peacfull, being in the defensive role, or selfdefense! There only can be a self defense situation and then you notice that and stamp the opponent into the ground. And you are not waiting for anything. So please stop talking like you know what the problem is and at the same second you talk about defending in a fighting situation. If you would understand where all this aikido techniques come from and that it is the mindset what make martial arts uneffective you could stop of making such videos.

  20. Yeah, fantasy martial arts do exist yet many of these FMA are in essence not combat sports but literally exercises and tools for self expression. Take Aikido as an example it's not a war art are system, but literally a philosophy and walk in day to day life. If you understand that you will not call it a combat sport but an art of peace. Literally Aikido's founder called it the art of peace and taught non violence. If you confuse the two you don't understand Aikido.

  21. Also, you never see people meditating in MMA schools but many TMA schools teach meditation before are after class. I think their is a lot of value in Aikido but It's not even traditional in the sense it was never used in feudal japan, no again It's an outgrowth of combat concepts and ideas that do reflect Japanese culture but It's not a system that teaches you to engage in violence it's about non violence and pacifism. Their are countless examples of combat orientated sports but It's not even worth going over and some of those sports literally have no place in MMA. Take Japanese sword fighting as an example.

  22. This general philosophy actually applies much more broadly. I’ve seen many of the things on your FBMA list in areas as diverse as art schools (as in styles of teaching) or music or even math education (my field). Pressure testing can mean anything where you must demonstrate the effectiveness of your craft. Teaching books that claim certain practices are best without hard research comparing them to other methods in real classrooms. I’m currently reading parenting books about how to get your baby to sleep and encountering the same thing. Claims about how to deal with specific situations that feel like contrived fantasies with no reference to the real world. Such a great video!

  23. I think you are on to something with your proposed term of FBMA. The TMA term seems inadequate to some extent. A lot of the critique you'll hear about the so called traditional martial arts comes from my fellow country men. After the military conflicts in the pass that deployed our military folks to Asia you had guys brining back martial arts to the US. Some were legit while many others came as high ranking black belts after having trained a year of even less which is fishy thus giving birth to the mc dojo and store front karate phenomena. These arts continued to get watered down due to a shift towards catering to the suburban weekend tournament phenomena. Of course its not all bad and there are some good programs out there. It is simply ironic that we water something down and then critique it for not working. In terms of tradition MMA has a tradition and a performance practice, its younger but it is certainly there. There is a pervasive quest to seek efficiency and disregard anything that seems unpractical. This quest does not draw from thin air but from incorporating the traits from different systems in order to adress all the ranges of combat with a roster of resources that worked well in conjunction with each other. That is in a fact a traditional approach as well. It is the same mind set that led to the creation of some of the old systems we have. Take Wado Ryu Karate by Hironori Otsuka. Rumor has it that he disagreed with Funakoshi, his former karate teacher in regard to the role of sparring. He eventually went his own way and united his expertise in jujitsu with his karate for forge the system of Wado. He also incorporated what was useful and did away with what did not serve him. While MMA does not have the ceremonial aspects of traditional arts it does have the essential elements of what makes a good martial art system. In the end what remains is functional martial arts and FBMA.

  24. Whoever thinks ALL traditional martial arts are fake should go to a Muay Thai gym and check how fake it is. I'd say Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai and Kyokushin are good examples of TMA that train in a realistic way and are excellent choices for practice.

    The problem is not how old the system is, but how realistic the training methods are, how much focus is placed on sparring and how instructors deal with their students' ego and ofc their own.

  25. isn t like vocabulary ?? we don t use a lot words for speaking , but sometimes we need special words for explain something …
    like sometimes it s need traditionnal martial arts with a lot of techniques use very sometimes …

    do we erase words we never use ??/

  26. Martial Arts are based on the concept of the duel, and in that realm they work great. Outside of that place…..well…. you do the research.

  27. I’m curious….I practiced aikido before having to give up due to personal issues, I saw aikido as a means of self development, physically and mentally, as I’m sure other martial artists do in their respective field of martial arts, not as a combative idea personally…I feel like that your more trying to base this all on self defence, which of course is good when in the real world when faced with having to deal with combative situation and having to defend yourself, some martial arts work of course, some dont…but for me I would like to see how martial arts help people like me develope mental stability and confidence, to be able apply that into a daily life…rather than looking purely at the physical side of martial arts all the time and what is better or not. Finding my inner personal strength and confidence is what worked for for me doing martial arts, I wish I could have kept up with practicing martial arts, but personal health dictated otherwise, it would be nice to see you do a more spiritual side when exploring martial arts as well, regardless of which martial art it is.

  28. I think that martial arts are an interpersonal attribute of learning responsibility and drive. Respect and self balance is important for development of a personal presence. Choices are pressure based and basics are refined by practical tools and advice. Judoka are trained in throws and ukemi to protect themselves from falls. Ebi is great for O-Guruma and many Otoshi protection. Rituals of honor are lacking in today’s society.

  29. People evaluate good manners and enthusiasm for an art and its actual effectiveness when I started martial arts my initial view was based on television movies magic I was told that muay thai boxing was the best standup and that one kicks with the shin my memory of shin pain was from when I was a kid and I smacked my shin on a metal framed slide at the park so I spent 7 years doing 1 2 punch low kick right cross elbow knee etc I sparred fought karate tai quando boxing guys and the training stood up very well many people fell from 2 good low kicks I then did 5 years jitsu chokes arm bars yang tai chi improved my timing relaxation syn lu tang tai chi and some aikido etc krav magar systems so what's going on it's this learn basic moves and get good at it jab jab right cross low kick knee and if you do it good your fighting fall on the floor learn full guard arm bar loop choke rear choke and your fighting good luck remember it's not about being the best it's about being able to fight anyone

  30. Dear frend, jour journey is ok. But! For sure you know MA, primary, used for self defence. After that, people realized that using some wepon, MA practitioner could be beaten. Full stop!!!
    MA should disappear as unesuful stuff. But, it did not. Opposit! MA become extreamly popular! Why is that? Because MA become way of life, way of how to fight against the stress of modern life… So, basic purpose of MA is not effectivness, at all. There is gun and you do not need to lost your time for training!!! So, I think that you missed the point, bro. MA is more than fighting, and you should know that when you start with you beautiful aikido.

  31. When it comes to self-defence the most effective skill you can posses is good awareness and 400m sprint, when that fails the one most likely to win is the one that is most proficient at dirty tricks.

    When it comes to label arts as FBMA, fake or whatever, I think we should be very careful. I train Tai Chi and most people call it fake and for most Tai Chi out there it would be true, as it's mostly trained for health benefits. However there still is some schools out there that train it for fighting. If Thai Chi isn't effective, then why did Dan Docherty win the 5th South East Asian Chinese pugilistic championship open weight division in 1980? Why is Nick Osipczak using it in his MMA training? Just because something is used in another way than it initially was intended, doesn't mean that the initial intention is no longer valid. I know some people think Bruce Lee was overrated but this quote actually nails self defense; “Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.” Although I would like to adapt it a bit: Use only that which works for you, and take it from any place you can find it. The idea that one style fits all is as ridiculous as one size fits all.

    Most people think that the Tai Chi form is equivalent to fighting, but in reality the form has very little to do with Tai Chi fighting. There are elements of fighting in the form but the primary focus on the form is health, strength, balance an flexibility. Are there more effective ways to train that? It is very likely but in the end the most effective exercise is the one you enjoy.

  32. Old Fashioned
    May have worked before…but not anymore.
    May be useful in research (for example armor)
    Ineffective due to lack of ability (for example Gracie Jiu Jitsu)
    Ineffective due to lack of ability "Knowledge Gap" early days (psychology, combat shooting, night fighting etc.)
    Fun (sports, health, artistic, social, cultural are some of the many reasons to continue)

    Military
    Generally hasn't changed much.
    But technologically continues to improve.
    "Gaps" in knowledge, training and technology are reduced and refined.

    Other Fields
    Language Learning and the Arts (Figure Drawing)
    Methods, Skills and Ability have improved a lot and saves students a lot of time (Ease of use and Better training methods) thanks to online education.

    Children
    Will be able to gain amazing abilities.
    What that means in their lives is open to debate.
    Balanced decision making…?
    Detante at best…?

    (My personal thoughts and notes. Open to criticism)

  33. In my utmost humble opinion.

    There are many issues with TMA and one of the reasons they often wander into the realm of becoming FBMA is due to the lack of comprehension in regards as to the “ Why”, they do what they do. “ Doing for the sake of doing instead of applying with intent and meaning”

    Drills for the sake of skills, but never getting the opportunity to apply nor test said skills, and thus neglecting to refine the drills as to pinpoint and assure the efficacy and reasoning behind the drill. Ie “ the Sake of the Why”

    Take wrestling for example, when learning to pummel, one is seeking to improve one’s positioning through sensitivity, honing and refining one’s ability to perform over/ underhooks, domination through subjugation, balance, structure, forward intent, etc, all necessary skills to build and improve upon.

    “ the illusion of self delusion “ enters in, when one builds upon the lie and states that this will be enough, this is an adequate amount of ” wrestling” for me, and it stops there, and if I’m ever in a real life self defense scenario all the other wrestling techniques will just
    “ come to me”.

    Any experienced grappler/ wrestler, even striking based martial artists that has any amount of stand up wrestling in their curriculum( clinching) etc will laugh at this statement. Because in its utterance it is an predetermined established fallacy in the ears of the wise who actually understands that pummeling are just one of many units that completes the whole.

    This example transcends systems and can be applied to anything in life, example:
    I have a house without any doors or windows. I surround myself with individuals that are in the same situation, they too praise my living conditions as something to aspire to, but since they’ve never experienced anything less( or better) that when they see others who are even worse off( living out of an shopping cart outside) ” oh what poor dredges, they don’t even have a house” they don’t recognize this fallacy until someone who actually has a complete furnished house, with locks, doors, all the necessities in place, looking at all of them and seeing that they actually are all poor people living under horrible conditions…

    Because in the eyes of the beholder that has a complete house, do not really separate nor see any difference between the homeless person or the ones that are living in a shack without doors or windows. They are still lacking, they are still poor, still wretched..

    “I have hundreds of students, all these degrees/ belts, beautiful location/ Dojo/Dojang,” lots of money etc..

    “ I have everything, but in the end it becomes equal to having nothing”

    “ Fighting is relativity in motion, never expect only respond as it one’s opponent within context that dictates tactics”

    “ wisdom is equal to correct comprehended knowledge appropriately applied “

    “ Everything works in the land of make believe, do not be a citizen there”

    Appreciations for sharing your insights with all of us Rokas, have had quite a similar journey to yours, so I can truly relate, and always looking forward to your next upload . 🙂

    Sincere regards

    Fellow martial artist.

    Tom Framnes.
    Norway.

  34. What really irritates me is if it’s not jujitsu or mma people always call it fake and it’s typically people who know nothing about martial arts. The other thing is how loosely the word ninja is used. Can’t count how many comments I’ve seen on videos of people doing flips and showing flexibility with a couple of kicks thrown in and someone who knows both posts “he or she is a ninja!” Ninja did arson and theft then eventually assassination. And jujitsu is really effective one on one. Try it on multiple people and see how that works out

  35. Rokas my friend thank you so much for this video 👍
    It was very insightful and i saw a lot of meaning in it.
    My martial arts background is predominantly with striking but im also a little familiar with grappling (20% only through a friend who did BJJ)
    I had to stop due to shoulder/elbow injuries i sustained at a previous job.
    However as i would have sparring sessions with my friend (his boxing was better than mine) he commented that overall my striking was 80% better than his.
    Over time however i had to stop training as it was flaring up my old injuries. And unfortunately if im saddled with injuries i can't do my job so i had to give up training altogether.
    Fast forward to now and im slowly regaining what i lost.
    My current theory is that if you choose a traditional martial art i suggest you also pick a contact sport along with it.
    Eg. Pick traditional Karate and boxing or wing chun and judo etc.
    The idea is to give yourself a window of opportunity within what you are learning so that you'll be less prone to make fatal mistakes in actual situations.
    Like being able to take a punch to the face or to lose your balance and find yourself slammed on the ground.
    I also admit that because i was first inducted with Muay Thai i found point sparring of little to no use later when i started learning Karate.
    I strongly believe that traditional martial arts schools can strive to the point where they can cope with what's out there.
    But only if they allow themselves to have an open mind to the level of new challenges that are plaguing them now.
    Please bear in mind that i do not disrespect people's views or martial arts background.
    I'm just a guy who used to train really hard and now trying his best to get back in shape…not for fighting but for staying fit.
    Rokas my friend i subscribed to your channel and hope to see more in the future.
    Many blessings and excellent health to you always dear sir 👊👊

  36. It needs to be taught that you are not suppose to adapt to the art but let the art adapt to your unique style. People to caught up in keeping the traditions alive and in the process created uniformity where all technique should only be done one way when thats not possible. Only use the concepts in these artform. The concepts do work.

  37. I think every responsible sensei/trainer/coach should be aware of what he/she is teaching and explicitly explain that to his/her students. As long as you don't talk of your style as something it isn't, I reckon every style has it's right to exist. It becomes dangerous when you tell people a martial art or martial sport is also good for self defense (and for what it's worth vice-versa). Each category has it's benefits, but also restrictions. I can't get comfortable with the FBMA term, as it is derogatory in my opinion. My categories (from my journey 🙂 ) are martial arts, martial sports and self defense. I like the idea of the check list, but I'd probably turn it into a positive list for each category, i.e. for self defense: Does the style get tested for effectiveness, etc. As a general rule I'd claim: the less rules in sparring, the more relevance for self defense.

  38. Aliveness is important, but so is Drilling the techniques. How can you practice aliveness, if you haven't ingrained the techniques into your brain?

    Pre-arranged patterns and co-operative partners are valuable for developing your muscle memory.

    The problem arises when you stay too much in the comfortable stage of Drilling, and never move over to the more demanding state of Aliveness.

    Wouldn't it be as wrong to dismiss Drilling in favor of live resistance as to dismiss live resistance in favor of Drilling?

  39. Great video, as usual. 🙂

    I've actually followed the oposite way. I have practiced Muay Thai and Boxe for 10 years and I'm now studying Judo. I've always thought that any fighting style that doesn't make you feel confortable with pain and strikes was useless in a real fight situation. However, I now see that Judo is really efective (specially if combined with my striking skills). It provides the knowledge I was lacking so bad (takedowns and ground game).

    One thing that I see people doing all the time is judging a traditional martial art due to it's effectiveness agains a trained fighter. It's a fair point and I do that myself, but based on all the training partners I had and all the sparrings done till this day, a person who has some background in a traditional martial art has an advantage compared to those who have never done anything like it. No matter how small the advantage is or even if it will result in a win, it's there.

  40. The so called tradisional martial art discussion is very complex, there are so many aspect of it. I prefer to called ineffective martial art instead of fantasy. Cus we are grouping many2 of those ineffective as one group. While its true, half of it probably modren day (above 18th century) bullshit.. some were actually has its merit back in the days.

    Armored swordman n spearman for example, were not using hand to hand, unless they lost their weapon. Striking with knuckes againts enemy helm can break your hand. Therefor using palm strike is a better option.

    Single leg takedown is still being use, but not as primary technique, cus you had to worry about the knife.

    The horse stance training is important to train the muscle needed for long period of spearwall.

    And so on..

  41. Coach Matt did not coin the phrase "Aliveness in Martial Arts" or "Dead Patterns". These are terms Bruce Lee used to critique Traditional Martial Arts. In the fight scenes he managed to film in Game of Death, he talks about both of these things. As well as in the books he wrote.

    Coach Matt is doing Jeet Kune Do very much the way Bruce Lee suggested people practice. Please give credit where credit is due. I would gladly Skype with you or make a video with you on the subject. I feel you have been misled as as to what JKD is.

  42. Martial arts is a life style. A way of life we must respect and love. U cant shrimp out of a deadly weapon or bridge ur way out on life. 🙏 respect

  43. I love this distinction. My main arts are Wing Chun and Taijiquan. Both are traditional martial arts. I've seen people who practice them with pressure testing and I've seen people who practice them as fantasy based.

  44. Not sure if you've read anything by Smith, but he trained or met OSensi and his view on Aikio back in the 60s was that the founder had something that none of his students had. Mind you oSensi like Kano both created a martial art from their previous backgrounds in other traditional Japanese martial arts.

  45. Im sure its my karate training and experience with a few other martial arts thats im undefeatet in maybe around 15 street fights when i was younger.
    Most was mass fights where we where outnumbered.

  46. I studied in the 70s
    Chinese gang member.
    There's a lack of serious violent behavior. YouTube would not like to be a host of"Real".
    Most american want to livr thr fantasy of UFC/or what happened in the parking lot at Walmart.
    Watch UFC..someone gets punched, goes down..
    Where's the self defense aspect.
    They cover up/cowered.
    Watch Judo matches. Art/Skill/Sport .
    Years of training on display, but most UFC fans would find hard to follow.
    Too the family and people of Hongkong you fight with the spirit of Kowloon city.

  47. Going through military recruit does not prepare you for War either.

    Nothing can prepare you for reality other than reality itself.

    What any training offers is muscle memory and this offers you a chance to survive reality if you ever come accross a sticky situation.

  48. I did trained in Kung Fu
    And I tested my skills against an MMA fighter my skills were very practical. Maybe it’s the way we trained in my school. However I do recognize the superiority of BJJ when it comes down to ground fighting.

  49. Keep in mind that when we begin training, we have to start somewhere. Almost every student will ask "What if …?" The question has to be addressed. And the pre-arranged sets are just a guide. As the students progress then the pressure testing can start. At the beginning, you can't just start beating up your students. As the student progresses the "uke" or "assailant" can be allowed to be more free in their attacks to teach the student how to use the knowledge they've obtained in different ways. FBMA irritates the crap out of me, especially when I see senior "Masters" and "Grand-Masters" teaching it as gospel. If the forms (kata, poomsae, hyung, taolu) are taught correctly, the variations of application, under pressure when appropriate, will be apparent. Otherwise, students will have a false sense of security from the McDojo to whom they paid a lot of money. On that $$ note, when martial art becomes a business, testing your system becomes a liability to your profits (which irritates me also). Also, check a guy named Iain Abernethy.

  50. Hey. Fully agree with this video. I practiced wushu for years, even though I know it's a performance martial arts at that point, fight science kinda kept me thinking it'll work without trying it out.

    Then I decided to explore the sparring side of things. I really feel that pressure testing gets you there where you season your mind so you'll be able to think & look. So it helps to put the moves into use. Especially when it's free sparring with protective gears on, I find it much more liberating and makes more sense now.

    That said, it's not that I don't believe traditional martial arts can't work. It's more of my journey to understand how to apply these techniques so I can appreciate it more. Thank you for your insightful thoughts!

  51. What you call “fantasy based martial arts” I would define as “spiritual martial arts”. I agree that they should be clearly identified and distinguished from combat martial arts to avoid misunderstandings and frustration of prospective students. But calling them fantasy arts would also be misleading. In many cases spiritual arts were developed as an evolution of combat arts, as a result of spiritual enlightenment of their creators. Their purpose is different than combat arts, but it doesn’t make them less important in our lives. Many people chose to pursue spiritual development as their life-time goals, not combat development, and spiritual arts offer a healthy alternative to traditional religions. Aikido, for example, in its latest form, is a purely spiritual art, based on a very specific Japanese religion. And it should be presented that way by its instructors. But just because spiritual arts chose to focus on spiritual aspects of out existence, calling them fantasies comes across as arrogant and disrespectful IMO. In the long term, they might prove to be more real and important for humanity than combat arts.

  52. in conclusion, aikido techniques works. But the way aikido syllabus are practise isnt suitable for combative sport as it was intended. Reviewing your sparring sesh i think you yourself realise that most aikido technique you try to pull wasnt done in a way that it would work (no kuzushi, etc). Aikido training teaches you technique, but very limited insight on how to set your opponent up in a way that an aiki technique would be possible. I think it only make sense that If youre looking to be proficient at fighting in a cage, then the only way to be good at it is to relentlessly get into fights (sparring). I am not surprise watching you fail landing a technique in that video. Do you think its fair if you won that fight having 0 sparring experience against someone who spar for a living? i wouldnt expect someone who never stepped into an aikido dojo would know how to put a nikyo on me, why would you think the hundreds of hours you spent not sparring can be put to use against someone who spars all the time? Until you can refrain from flinching, start irimi instead of backpedalling each time your opponent strike there is no way you can apply an aikido technique.

  53. I started doing several "traditional" martial arts while I was growing up. Each offered their own particular approaches but obviously were technically diverse. Does this make them "inferior/non-effective" compared to modern MMA? For me, no.
    Having spent seven years and with advanced training from a military perspective, I do believe that there is a large difference in the applications to those martial arts that I studied when younger, as compared to the trained combat scenario offered by the military.
    Traditional martial arts are simply that. Puristic in their approach to both application and implementation to a defensive scenario.
    The MMA for me is very similar, just possibly more practicable and more applicable to a greater variety of defensive possibilities.
    When compared to advanced military training, both fall very short. The element of tradition or fair play does not exist involving lethality.
    Simply, kill or be killed. But without the traditional arts, I truly feel any self-defense that is worthy of note needs praise. As without them any further forms of combat self-defense simply would not exist. And I feel the integration of weapons is much underrated in TMA as most who practice them, will not be taught due to their lack of experience, not ability. Unlike in the military.

  54. I don't usually post comments on YouTube, but I'll just throw in my 2 cents. Guess I've always been lucky in my life when it came to training martial arts, because when I did TKD, we were always told to pressure test all these self-defense techniques and find a way to make them work better, and we always did these drills under full resistance. When we sparred, we did it the way it was supposed to be done: Using punches and elbows on top of punches. A lot of people have this misconception about TKD that all it teaches are kicks. While I know the provenance of such misconception, that's simply not true. TKD was also a mixed martial art–notice, I said "was" because so many dojangs nowadays focus solely on kicks–and anyone that's done proper research into TKD history will know that. While it had little to no ground grappling techniques, it had throws, punches, elbows, knees, and kicks. It was made by and for military, so of course it would cover as many aspects of unarmed combat as possible. As for having little to no ground techniques, I'm not sure if you would want to go on the ground while on a battlefield, like in actual war.
    Also, a lot of people seem to think that Muay Thai is the only martial art that is the "art of 8 limbs", but, the truth is, most of us are born with the same body: Two arms, two legs, elbows, and etc. Hell, round kick with the shins isn't unique to Muay Thai. Kung Fu has this technique and so does TKD, and both do have leg kicks. (I can't speak for Kung Fu, but, as for TKD, teaching methods have been adjusted to what's marketed as sport TKD, which is one of the reasons you mostly see instep snap kicks nowadays. It's not that TKD ONLY has that snappy instep kick. Techniques taught are different depending on the purpose that they are taught for.) Check out the original TKD manual book when you have the chance. It's like when Saenchai says that Muay Thai also has spinning hook kicks and spinning back kicks. We don't really see it those that much in Thai boxers, but there are some like Saenchai who use them, these "flashy" "won't-work-in-real-life" kicks. If tornado kicks and spinning hook kicks are just fancy moves that won't work in real life, then maybe those moves aren't for that particular person, because everyone has different fighting style that suits them better. Not sure if anyone will get this, but that's like saying uppercut is a move that can't work in real life. I mean, who the hell would just give their chin as a punching bag? Well, every technique is useless if they aren't set up by previous moves, if they aren't executed in that "golden time window". What Muay Thai has done well is preserving the combat aspect through practical training. Where TKD really went "wrong" is when it was recognized as a marketing tool and therefore as a sport where you use leg as your main weapon. But by no means is it a "fantasy based" martial art or an "incomplete" one. While it's not clear whether or not Taekkyeon and TKD are actually related, Taekkyeon also was used for battle in times of war and was turned into a game in times of peace. (By the way, Taekkyeon was just a part of the whole combat systems created back in the day, it was just one aspect. So, it was a part of a complete martial art system but has grown to be an art of its own.)
    To end this long post, I'd like to say that to call a martial art with "limited set of rules" a fantasy based martial art is a bit of a stretch, especially making that claim while showing TKD footage. Current McDojangs are ruining TKD, I agree, but you can't call what was once a complete system a fantasy based martial art. Remember, all martial arts have "martial" roots, but not all martial arts retain their "martial" aspect, all because times change.
    Check out this channel. This guy's trying to bring TKD back. And if you think this looks more like "MMA" or just "Kickboxing", then you're right: TKD was originally created to be just that, a combat system used in military utilizing all, or nearly all, the weapons in human body including the hips for throws and such.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDDW-oBreAcBo0cUmPaLj2g

  55. My friend who trained for 15 years in traditional karate almost died after being put into a coma getting into a fight with someone who had experience actually fighting.

    This is not some BS I am making up. It may just be one of those things where he wasn't cut out for fighting full stop but it serves some sort of point or lesson I hope.

  56. Traditional martial arts over an thousand years old in the begining an Indian Buddhist monk travel to China to show Chinese Buddhism that Origin of traditional martial arts

  57. end of the day it doesn't matter what you train what matters is if you have the ability to use what you learned in a violent confrontation. because there are people out there that don't train but can serve a devastating beat down

  58. I'm very serious and offended for whoever said that traditional Martial arts a Fake. I've trained Arnis, Taekwondo and Muay Thai. Yeah. I may be a basic/beginner in MMA. But i do like Traditional Style Martial Arts and this is getting on my nerves. I hated other people saying that traditional Martial Arts are Fake and im gonna lose it and this is getting annoying or stupid.
    I like mma but i like both tma and mma. Or i should called it "MTMA"(stands for Mixed Traditional Martial Arts. Because I trained 3 or 4 martial arts like arnis, taekwondo, boxing and Muay thai)
    Also i like Chinese Martial arts like Shaolin Kung Fu, Wing Chun, Bajiquan and 5 Animal Styles or Druken Fist, Hung ga kuen and other more chinese kung fu

  59. Besides Karate or Taekwondo or even Muay thai, Jeet kune do. I personally do like Kenpo, Pencak silat, Baguazhang, Vovinam or Sikaran

  60. I did Kung Fu for many years and I did notice on my own that 90% of the moves were a waste of time and not practical but the advantage my school had was we did a lot of sparring so that was able to turn me into a good striker and practical fighter. Now I do bjj

  61. Fact is, these days folk aren't interested in facts – just easier to write off as fake than actually stop and learn something.

  62. If a martial art is not effective in real combat it's fake & treating as fake is the proper response to bullshido. You have to be realistic. Thinking Akido is effective will get you beat up. After all fantasy is fake…
    I know it hurts a person's feelings when they've been studying bullshido for years and their told it's a fake combat style but the truth can hurt.
    It's facts over feelings. Again Fantasy is fake.
    MMA & other full contact combat sports have exposed many combat styles as ineffective & useless in a real fight. That's reality, calling it fantasy only exposes how FAKE some martial Arts styles are. Do you believe in touchless martial Arts too? That shit is fake AF not fantasy… Just fake.

  63. I'll tell you what's NOT fake…the Russian Slap defense…that technique can't be touched by any fighting style!!
    In all seriousness though, I think that most of the martial arts are just not practical in real life fighting situations, that's why you'll see a kung fu master who has been studying the art for 100 years get demolished by a mma fighter

  64. There are still several issues with your stance on your journey and still a profound bias in favor of the current wave of McDojos (MMA gyms and Gracie schools). One of these is that if we look at the humble jumping mae geri that Lyoto Machida knocked Randy out with, this technique can't be drilled over and over again in a "pressure" situation due to the danger to the uke. The same can be said of ushiro geri or yoko geri used so effectively by Wonderboy Thompson. People were jumping out of their seats when they saw these techniques applied in MMA because karate had been dismissed as ineffectual garbage by the "pressure test" of MMA. The repeated practice of these techniques is what can be interpreted as "rigid choreography" but that practice is what prepares the mind and body to deliver these techniques in fast and efficient execution. Where some pressure testing is necessary to help wire those neuro pathways to application, overemphasis on this can wear down the body with unnecessary injury and develop sloppy execution.
    On the subject of pressure testing, remove the gloves and wrist protection from MMA and watch what happens to the sport over the next 10 years. Gloves have protected poor strikers from hand injuries and wrist techniques at the expense of "pressure testing" the integrity of their striking training. Gloves may be a large reason why you found your own style so ineffective. Another example is how easy rolling with BJJ practitioners becomes if you are skilled at small joint manipulation and they agree to spar by those rules. And ask them why they don't allow it and wait to hear about it being "too dangerous" and then apply your above criticism to that.
    Just some food for thought in defense of TMA but I applaud your willingness to own your past bigotry toward traditional systems and your vocal willingness to stay open minded.

  65. MOST TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS 🥋 IS LIMITED .!!!!!!! . THERE ARE NO REQUIREMENTS FOR READING ? 📖 ACIENT BOOKS 📚 ON ( FIGHTING & SELF DEFENSE ) .!!!!!! . THATS ITS ( WEAKNESS ) .!!!!!!! . IT ALL ( ORAL TEACHINGS ) ONLY . .!!!!!! . & ( VERY LITTLE CONTACT ) BY RULES ? . ( DO & DON’TS .? ) . [ BRUCCE LEE ] , HAD OVER 600- PERSONAL BOOKS 📚 .& FILM . TO STUDY .!!!!!!! . AND ( FULL , CONTACT !!!! .) 😳🙏🏾😳.!!!!!!! . ( AS REAL AS POSSIBLE ) .!!!!!!! .( IF U WANT TO BE THE BEST U MUST TRAIN , AS THE BEST🙏🏾 ) .!!!!!! . 😎👍🥋….

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